The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-Installing K&K mini pickup (2024)

You certainly demonstrated to your own satisfaction that gluing the K&K transducers improves the sound compared to using tape.... a result which was to be expected.

I am less convinced that the "correct" placement of the transducers compared to the apparently "incorrect" placement in the OM45 is significant. IME these K&K minis sound good regardless of placement.

It will be interesting to hear what the OM-45 sounds like once you have installed the new K&K .

Tape is never appropriate for the optimal (correct)installation, as you are discovering.

It is interesting when people (Not you) in the past have installed the pickup with the non-recommended tape, then complain about the results.

Looks like you are doing/have done great jobs on the install!

Congrats!

While installs on classicals, mando-family instruments, and arch tops can require some ingenuity to get good placement, the installation kit that comes with the K&K works well for plain vanilla flattops like your 45. We use GluBoost Gel CA for adhesive after finding that most hobby store and big box CA gels from LocTite and Crazy Glue are past what must be a very short shelf life.

The film adhesive is there for initial assessment - not permanent mounting. Your OM-45's K&K appears to have been installed by a 'luthier' with reading comprehension problems - K&K is quite clear about the use of the tape as a temporary measure.

Worth paying attention to the instructions on placement...the change from 4-5 years ago (shift of the B3/E4 transducer towards E4) does provide better balance on most standard installs. Where the tape comes in handy is for odd-ball installs such as stepped bridge plates (Greenfield), very short/narrow or misplaced plates (a few 'bargain' AGF-based custom builders...hint to potential buyers: there are NO bargains in custom guitars), or in the few instances where some reduction in gain is needed (rare, rare, and more rare).

I have repaired enough torn-out end grafts to suggest you invest in either the purpose-built StewMac reamer designed for the job or buy and use an Irwin 3/16"-1/2" step drill to open the hole and a 15/32" chucked reamer to finish the hole. The step drill will do a better job than twist drills at maintaining the center, which will avoid the slight offset seen in your photo, and will not grab like unmodified twists are prone to do.

Haydavey wrote:wondering what you used to attach the pickups to the cardboard?

I use poster sticker stuff. You get a generous slice of it with a new K&K pickup.

Only thing I do differently than the OP is put one pickup at a time on. I don't like dealing with 3 superglue laden elements inside a customer's guitar. Another tip (?)... hold the pickup wire as you guide the template in, not the template itself. The template will stick to the pickup a lot better than the pickup with stick to the template. You'll see what I mean when you do one.

Disclaimer Section: IMHO, YMMV, IMHE, Don't Try This At Home, Take With Grain Of Salt, etc, etc.

Bryan Kimsey
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Bryankimsey
EMAIL: [emailprotected]

Four of the end graft repairs I've done were experienced woodworkers that were working with a full index (1/64th inch steps) and sharp bits...did not matter. About a $250-$350 repair if the end graft is ripped out. A step drill and reamer combo is about $40. Cheap insurance. For some reason, few woodworkers use reamers, but luthiers and metalworkers understand.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-1-4-in-1 ... 1000363529

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L-I-15-32-HSS- ... :rk:6:pf:0

jscio wrote:You're braver than I am. I had mine installed.

I installed a pickup in my Yamaha 12-string, but paid to have a K&K installed in my HD-28V.

Patrick

2012 Martin HD-28V
1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832
2018 Gretsch G5420TG
Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage
ToneDexter

Haydavey wrote:wondering what you used to attach the pickups to the cardboard?

I used the supplied putty. Worked great!

sfflyer wrote:Four of the end graft repairs I've done were experienced woodworkers that were working with a full index (1/64th inch steps) and sharp bits...did not matter. About a $250-$350 repair if the end graft is ripped out. A step drill and reamer combo is about $40. Cheap insurance. For some reason, few woodworkers use reamers, but luthiers and metalworkers understand.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-1-4-in-1 ... 1000363529

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L-I-15-32-HSS- ... :rk:6:pf:0

I’ll pick some up. Good reason to buy new tools, me being a tool junkie. I always like learning new (to me) techniques. Chair makers have been using tapered reamers for a couple of hundred years.

Tony

As David Drucker says, "Nov shmoz ka pop..."
My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?"
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Say hello to my little friend...

-Mr. Slots-

"Only downside to using a gel-type superglue is you might need to hold the transducer in position just a little longer until it sets in place."

That is no downside compared to NOT using a Gel (i.e., using a liquid) and having it run all over your guitar. There really isn't an alternate between gel & liquid superglue that I know of, although I'd be happy to learn.

As to drilling - The Stewmac Tapered reamer MADE for the endpin drill out is perfect! (Although I've used a succession of increasing diameter sharp drill bits many times in the past with zero problem. But I've been working around wood and power tools for a half century or so...)

sfflyer wrote:Worth paying attention to the instructions on placement...the change from 4-5 years ago (shift of the B3/E4 transducer towards E4) does provide better balance on most standard installs.

I had you figured as being a bit more sceptical than that, Todd.

I have fitted K&K's on literally dozens (all right a couple of dozen) of my own guitars, and have never once thought that there was any sonic problem with just fitting them the way they were done in the past.

I am slightly curious as to how the guys at K&K actually arrived at the conclusion that moving the B3/E4 transducer towards E4 was an improvement.

I mean, when you think about it, it would require some really intensive (and expensive) testing to establish any universal benefit ... particularly since they would have to glue the transducers and then break the glue joint and reglue.

Maybe they did do the tests ...I dunno.

murrmac wrote:

sfflyer wrote:Worth paying attention to the instructions on placement...the change from 4-5 years ago (shift of the B3/E4 transducer towards E4) does provide better balance on most standard installs.

I had you figured as being a bit more sceptical than that, Todd.

I have fitted K&K's on literally dozens (all right a couple of dozen) of my own guitars, and have never once thought that there was any sonic problem with just fitting them the way they were done in the past.

I am slightly curious as to how the guys at K&K actually arrived at the conclusion that moving the B3/E4 transducer towards E4 was an improvement.

I mean, when you think about it, it would require some really intensive (and expensive) testing to establish any universal benefit ... particularly since they would have to glue the transducers and then break the glue joint and reglue.

Maybe they did do the tests ...I dunno.

It's actually not too horrible to test this stuff. Use the film adhesive and move the transducers around one at a time...I've had to do this on Greenfield fans and other odd ducks that depart from canonical Martin/Gibson flattop configs for K&K installs, or where builders have skimped on/mislocated the bridge plate. Does take time - a few hours to really tweak things, but usually not a major consideration for the owners versus getting things right. While the film reduces gain during trials, the string balance remains as it will be with CA if properly applied.

And yes - I A/B'd the change when K&K publicized it, and it does appear to even out the B and E4 presentation on generic Martins, where the E could be a bit weaker than the B with medium string sets. I did not hear as much difference with light string sets, and my students and repair tech were split on any change...students claimed no difference and tech claimed she thought E4 was too loud. Sparse data set and tech running female neural wetware, so nothing too objective. We don't have a line of prior install customers demanding that we make that 0.23" shift on their B/E4 transducers, so the difference probably ranges from very subtle to meaningless...making it a sure fire bet for a UMGF recurring topic.